In a rare interview on the eve of becoming the longest-serving prime minister in the history of the Italian Republic, Giorgia Meloni reflected on her long journey from a post‑Fascist party to a central role in European politics she is reshaping.
She alternated between calm and combative tones, displaying both humor and fierce determination.
Expressively, she mused, ‘I could have pursued a career in theater. I imagine I would have had far more fun. I don’t know how I ended up here, but I did.’
Her unlikely rise has already left a strong impact beyond Italy’s borders. The term ‘Melonization’—referring to the softening of a disturbing historical legacy—has entered common usage, describing how a post‑Fascist party under her leadership sheds its authoritarian threat and gains mainstream acceptance.
With Marine Le Pen, the former far‑right French party now a leading candidate for next year’s presidential election, and Germany’s hard‑right Alternative for Germany (AfD) topping polls, the ‘Meloni effect’ will soon be tested at the heart of post‑war European integration.
Below are the key takeaways from the interview, conducted in Italian in a lounge beside Ms. Meloni’s Rome office.
Don’t Mess With Italy
Italy, the world’s eighth‑largest economy, has long been viewed as a minor player among major powers. Meloni is determined to change that. ‘I dislike the notion of a submissive Italy that regards itself as inferior,’ she said. Her aim is to effect ‘the biggest revolution in the nation—a revolution of pride.’
A natural contrarian, she joined the post‑Fascist right at 15, despite its seemingly impossible path to power, and believes Italy should reinvent itself. ‘I don’t like others dictating my limits,’ she said. ‘A ‘No’ fuels my drive the most.’
What applies to her also applies to the nation, which she prefers to call ‘Italy’ rather than ‘Republic’ or ‘country.’ ‘I think what brought me here was the courage to stand on the uncomfortable side of history,’ Meloni said. ‘To choose to go against the prevailing current.’
“Courage” is her favorite word, by far.
Things Are Tense With Trump
Given her ambitions for the country, it was unsurprising that Meloni bristled when President Trump implied she had ‘begged’ to be photographed beside him at the June G7 summit in France.
‘It seems that with Donald Trump, I expected easier cooperation given our shared stance on immigration and cultural issues,’ Meloni told me. ‘Reality has proved otherwise.’
In June she became the first of several European leaders to strike back firmly at Mr. Trump, whom she rebuked: ‘Italy and I never begged.’
The two leaders have not spoken in weeks, she revealed. When asked if they would talk after the summer break, she replied, ‘Well, we will see.’
Nevertheless, she regrets nothing: ‘I continue to believe the unity of the West is vital. I base Italian strategy not on personal relations.’
Feminists Fought the Wrong Battles
Meloni has faced criticism for using the masculine term ‘il presidente’ in Italian. She said she believes feminists have fought the wrong battles, such as gender quotas.
‘What interests me is whether I can become president of the Council of Ministers,’ she says, using the formal term for the Italian cabinet and its prime minister. ‘That is equality, not being called ‘la presidenta.”
She is known for declaring, ‘I am Giorgia, I am a woman, I am a mother, I am Italian, I am Christian. No one can take this away from me, and they will not.’
When asked why her heartfelt statement resonated so strongly, she replied, ‘Because it struck a chord with millions. It expresses feeling threatened in one’s authentic, fundamental identity, providing an easy slogan for an emotional rebellion.’
Being a woman is part of that fundamental identity, she said, without specifying how it is threatened. She declined to say whether she considers herself a feminist.
My Economy Is Better Than the Left’s
Meloni was furious when I cited the left’s criticism of her economic management. She listed a range of ‘parameters’ — employment, inflation, illegal migrant arrivals, health spending, market spreads — and asked, ‘Tell me if they aren’t better!’
These indicators have indeed improved, albeit only modestly at times.
‘But it’s possible,’ she said with her characteristic sarcastic wit, ‘that I did nothing!’
That is the accusation against her. Elly Schlein, leader of Italy’s center-left Democratic Party, pointed to the country’s modest 0.5 % growth rate, a steep decline in real wages, some of Europe’s highest energy bills, and strained public hospitals as proof of a ‘wasted historic opportunity.’
Italians will decide in next year’s election who is right.